Archive for the ‘Roundtable’ Category

It actually seems like the first ten years of this new millenium have been absolute heaven for all of nerds and geeks out there. Whether you are into comics, superheroes, movies, books, television, or music something awesome has happened in the last decade that has just made you absolutely exstatic. As much as we would like to give you a “Best Nerd Stuff of the Decade” list it would just take too long – that, and we are a group of surprisingly lazy robots.

Instead, a few of us bots have compiled an extremely abbreviated list of what we consider to be our favorite “nerd goings ons” of 2009. Of course, this is just simply our opinions and events that stuck out to us over the last year in the world of comics, television, movies, etc. Sound off in the comments section and let us know what YOUR favorite nerd thing/event of 2009 was!

Zombietron

• Borderlands – This was a huge sleeper hit of 2009 in video games.
• Batman Arkham Asylum – Best. Batman game. Ever.
• Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 – Does this really need an explanation?

Proletariatron

• Scott Pilgrim Vol. 5 – Simply put, the best book/graphic novel of 2009.
• Better off Ted – Best new sitcom of 2009. Funny, smart, and only 30 min.

Swank-mo-tron

• Cad Bane – This has been perhaps one of the most interesting and amazing contributions to both the nerd world and the Star Wars universe.
• JJ Abrams’ Star Trek – The new movie has helped introduce an entirely new generation to the world of Star Trek and did it in perhaps the most entertaining way possible.
• Avatar – I haven’t seen it yet, but the process of HOW they made the movie will change the way movies of this size and spectacle will be made forever.

Dr. Simulcast

• “Cheap Geek” – Bad economy makes for good geek times! Why? Because companies that cater to a nerd crowd recognize that they pay for what they can afford in really hard times. Even the most hardcore collectors, when left with ten bucks to buy a comic or ramen noodles, will buy the ramen to stay alive and read old issues. A lot of items went down in price this year, and we’re not just talking average DVD sales. Two of the most prominent of the year… The Playstation 3 (once originally priced at $700), now just $299. Where most stand-alone BluRay players are around $250, an extra fifty bucks gets you a top line game system with it. So what if there’s no clock on the front? And the second… the standard iPhone becoming just $99. Originally priced at $300 just last year (before the bug fixes), you now have a multi-purpose phone with thousands of free applications ready for download at an affordable price. Other objects that went down in price from January to now… flat screen televisions, the Wii and 360 (although minor), graphic novels, storage devices and media players.
• “Gooferine” – I’ll keep this one simple. Make all the horrible jokes that you want, Disney buying Marvel was probably one of the best decisions the company could have made, and in turn will probably benefit Marvel as a whole more than vice versa. My only case in point… Marvel’s 90’s cartoons. Finding an audience after the animated Batman series became big, Marvel went all out and made several series into cartoons. X-Men, Spiderman, The Hulk, Iron Man, Silver Surfer… and they were somewhat ideal… but the quality lacked. If you think I’m full of shit, please, do me a favor, click pause on this podcast and go sit through an episode from any of those series in full, and then come back and tell me it was golden. Many were thrown together in haste, chopping up footage and using every animation trick in the book to stretch a 1960’s ten minute read into twenty-two minute 1990’s update. Now for a brief moment, Family Guy joke aside, picture the Disney animation department doing the work instead of Saban. How good would that old X-Men series be? Forget the films and the merch and everything else Disney probably bought them for. I believe a new dawn is on the horizon for Marvel and animation, where an actual effort will be put behind the content. …Now if only Marvel could hire some good writers to adapt the stories for television without pulling random material out of a hat. (I’m looking at you Wolverine & The X-Men)
• “The Great Internet Crash” – While not viewed so much as geeky on the surface, delve deeper into these two subjects and you’ll find greater value for the tech savvy. The death of Michael Jackson and the Iranian Riots. The internet, while a valuable tool for millions, has been viewed more as a “play thing” over the years (insert porn joke here) than a mainstream source of information. One look at a Wikipedia article can tell you that. But over the summer two events changed MANY opinions. Jackson’s death, started as a simple text message, brought many search engines to a screeching halt within hours and forced many providers look at how they not only delegate service but examine what improvements the US (and the world in general) needs going into the future. While Iran’s election and subsequent revolution was documented in full… on Twitter. With updates and information coming in faster than some news organizations could keep up with, and continued to provide info long after many news crews were threatened with being shot if they didn’t shut down their reporting. While much more could be said on these subjects, in the ideal of keeping it short and sweet we’ll leave it at this. I believe its fair to say that 2009 was the year that the internet finally grew up, came into its own as a major source of information, and officially became a necessity as opposed to a commodity.

Botasaurus

• Zombieland – Because life with zombies is epic. Woody Allen killed it and Bill Murray is hilarious.
• Ontario Math Scholars – Writing a mathematical thesis on the chances of the world surviving a zombie apocolypse using older zombies that are slow, not the new super zombies.
• Jim and Pam Get Married – I’m a girl and I was waiting for it for what seems like forever.
• Dexter Season 4 – Holy cow!!! That was so freaking amazing. Quite possibly the best season yet.

Kill-tacular-Tron

• Ghostbusters – Ghostbusters merchandise, Ghostbusters anniversary, Ghostbusters videogame, Ghostbuster 3 movie news! It was a great year to be a fan of Ghostbusters!
• Netflix on Xbox 360 – A great addidtion to the Xbox 360 dashboard. Sign up and stream TV shows and movies straight to your TV via your gaming console!
• Saberforge Lightsabers – Best lightsaber replicas! You can actually hit stuff with them and they don’t break!

Arse-bot

• LOST Season 5 – This show has been absolutely addictive and this was a great season leading up to the finale season.
• DC Feature Length Animated Movies – DC release two really solid feature length animated movies in 2009, Green Lantern: First Flight and Batman/Superman: Public Enemies. Both of these feature Bruce Timm involved to some degree and are great animated flicks to check out.
• (500) Days of Summer / UP – My two favorite movies of 2009. Joseph Gordon Levitt and the cast of (500) Days of Summer execute a great script and story perfectly and Pixar does it again with another amazing entry to their library of films with UP.

Budgetron

• 70 Minute Phantom Menace review – Your heart knew the Phantom Menace sucked as soon as the “new car smell” wore out and you were left with nothing but a 3 year wait for Attack of the Clones, but you never knew exactly why you hated it so much. Well, don’t worry, you’re about to give your brain a blow-by-blow of why your heart was right about the Phantom Menace. You may be thinking, “Yeah, it might be fun, but 70 minutes?”, yeah, I thought that too…but if you’re any kind of Star Wars fan, this uber fan’s review of the film is a thoroughly entertaining and insightful MUST WATCH.
• Swank-mo-tron’s Reaction to the 70 Minute Phantom Menace – And as much as I loved the 70 minute review of Phantom Menace, nothing, and I mean NOTHING, could have prepared me for the level of seething hatred Swank-mo-tron had for the creator of said review. Without even WATCHING the review, Swank furiously hit the internets with a purpose; oh yes, he was going to take the whole internet to task with an eye single to the glory of George. You would have thought the murderer of his children was getting set free, but no…someone just made fun of Star Wars. It was great.

There’s our list for 2009! Tell us what your favorite Nerd/Geek thing/event of 2009 was in the comments section below!

Also, be sure to check out our December Big Shiny Podcast where we break down some nerd news from December and highlight some of the items from our “Best Nerd Stuff of 2009″ list!

Swank-mo-tron: And so, gentlerobots, we’re here to discuss Disney/Pixar’s film, Up.  Up tells the story of the 78-year old Carl Fredrickson and the adventure he embarks upon after tying millions of helium balloons to his house and setting off for South America.  It’s alternately heart-warming and hilarious, tear-jerking and suspenseful and I feel like it has earned its place among the very best of Pixar’s films.  In fact, the economy of story and script in this film was nothing short of astounding.  “Sure,” you’re thinking to yourself, “he can use a lot of buzz words when describing things about the movie,” but I’m in earnest.  The opening of the film plays out in a montage that crams the entire life of Carl and his wife, Ellie, that gave me such a thorough and complete understanding of these characters in less than 10 minutes that I felt like I’d already watched an entire movies-worth of information told which a graceful economy of words and actions that most movies these days aren’t able to accomplish in the entirety of their running length.

There’s more I’d like to add, but I’d like to give the other robot’s a chance to speak:

Unless you’ve been living under a rock, you know that over the weekend the newest installment to 20th Century Fox’s X-Men franchise, X-Men Origins: Wolverine, was released. Of course, many of us robots here at BSR! flocked to the theaters to see it; despite the leaked work-print and despite the negative to mixed (at best) reviews. So, if you are still trying to decide whether or not to check this flick out, maybe some reviews from some of us ‘bots can help you make up your mind! Start us off HumanJunk!

HumanJunk: I thought it bastardized the character and was a ploy to sell plastic toys, slurpees and make levels for a video game (Level 12 – Punch Blob to get information in the boxing ring!). Wolverine’s childhood is told in a span of 2 minutes, and the proceeding 150 years of his life (his fighting in each major war) is skimmed over in a span of 60 seconds. If you’re telling an origin story, don’t you think that the first 150 years of someone’s life is relevant as to why they are the way they are? It’s time to write off the X-Men film franchise.

I’m not one to call myself a purist; the first two X-Men films weren’t exactly the comics – but they managed to capture the heart and soul of the characters and the cultural relevance that the books had.

Dr. Cyborg Robot M.D. attorney at law – Five: I thought this was more enjoyable than X3, which is the main thing I can say about it. “It was slightly better than X3″ This is not a compliment. I thought this movie was a montage for different ways to use a claw. I was literally knocked on my ass when he didn’t finger a broad with his claw. If you stop to think about this movie for even a second it should ruin it for you, but if you legitimately know how to turn off your brain and enjoy a bad movie you might make it through this one alive. It is so dumb. It might be a good reason to eat popcorn and drink beer. It is somehow entertaining, but not any good. It’s a little disappointing that you have Hugh Jackman playing a really cool character, that he is good at playing and then come out with a bad movie. I really don’t think it merits much more discussion than this, it was an action movie that had a bad script, some okay actors, and no intelligent design whatsoever. My favorite line in the movie is when Zero the crakerjack shot says into a radio, “I just murdered two civillians, over.”

Mookatron: I found myself walking out of the theater thinking to myself “Well, it didn’t suck out loud.” Then in the time since that I’ve picked and punched holes through it with some fellow robots and have come to the following conclusion: It’s a brainless, summer popcorn flick with just a handful of notable moments. That alone would make it a movie that I’d recommend to friends and fellow nerd-bots, but there’s a problem. The first two X-Flicks set the bar so high, that it’s a shame to see this come out and have it only be mediocre. It could have been so much better. It SHOULD have been so much better. Oh well. “Star Trek” is next week, right? Oh, and I thought the digital-botox for Stewart and McKellan was bad in X3. Wow. I wasn’t sure if they animated Stewart in this one from scratch, or actually used the actor. All kinds of bad on that one. And Will I. Am??? The less said the better.

Proletaria-Tron: I checked this out alone because I could not find anyone willing to go see it with me. I’m glad I didn’t drag anyone else to it. I would have felt like I owed them a refund. Like Dr. Cyborg and HumanJunk said they completely bastardized the story line and left out a lot of very interesting things in that 150 years they glossed over. The entire weapon x story was re-arranged and made boring. The previews and commercials for this movie made it seem like another movie entirely, and Emma Frosts sister? WTF? DeadPool with his mouth sewn shut? I wish Marvel had been behind this like with Hulk and Iron Man, maybe then we could have got the movie we all wanted.

Arse-Bot: I tend to be a lot more forgiving with these types of movies than most of my fellow bots here, and with this film it was no different. Was it great? Definately not. It was however, a good mindless-action-popcorn movie; unfortunately this is not what it should have been. I agree with the general complaint that they blew through the first 150 years of “Jimmy’s” life in the opening credits, I felt like there could have been more said about this, but the part they did focus on was mildly interesting to me, but still left a lot unexplored and didn’t really paint Wolverine as the supposed “animal” that he can be; and this remains true throughout the entire running time of the movie. They leave the points they should have explored unexplored and focus on the most mindless parts with little substance.

The cast, aside from will.i.am, was good but horribly under-used. You hate to see good actors put into poorly written action movies. I was horrified at some of the lack-luster special effects throughout the entire movie so much so that I cringed at a few parts (Logan playing with his new claws in the bathroom mirror). And let me just say that I watched X2 a few days after I saw this movie and if you thought you could poke holes all throughout the plot of X-Men Origins, go watch X2 again… you’ll double the amount of plot complaints you already had.

All in all, if I am being perfectly honest, I don’t know what else to say about this movie. As a comic nerd, I was apauled at many parts of this movie, and as someone looking to be entertained for a few hours, I thought some of it was pretty cool. I don’t think anyone should not go check this movie out, as there are enough “Oh, it’s cool to see Wolverine do that on screen” parts to at least keep you mildly entertained and let you form your own opinion. But see a matinee and save yourself $4…

Conclusion: Sounds like most of us robots here at BSR! agree on a lot of the negative aspects about this movie and feel like there should have been a lot more focus on character and story than just a  (to quote the good doctor) “…a montage for different ways to use a claw.” We give the movie a D+, maybe a C- if we are being generous? (yes, that’s a question) But of course, don’t let us have the final word!

Tell us what you thought about X-Men Origins: Wolverine in the comments section below! What did you like? What did you hate?

And be sure to check back later as Arse-Bot takes a few minutes out of his day to geek-out and bitch about the use of his beloved Wade Wilson/Deadpool in this movie!

Pencilbot: I could name about 4 things that pulled me out in the movie;

1. Silk Spectre I as an old bitch talking about the past being better than the future + Carla Gugino’s bad acting = I remember I’m watching a movie

2. Dr. Manhattan coming back from his memories on Mars and it’s absolutely silent for only a second, then the Phillip Glass track comes in. I think it came in a second too early.

3. “Hallelujah” in the sex scene. I’m sorry, but if I’m going to hear some Leonard Cohen during two people fucking, it better be “Suzanne”.

4. I forget. I think it might have been that all the superheroes kinda fight the same way.

Other than that, my belief is that this movie was a flawless depiction of how you can make a Watchmen movie work in a mainstream media form. There was tits and penis, how many mainstream ‘adult’ movies are rated R but shy away from showing some male genitals like it’s some big taboo? I was so glad that approached things with a more mature and developed nature than more mainstream movies, from the lesbians in the opening sequence (which I think grabbed me by the nuts in a second and never let go… though that might have also been the person next to me) to having hot sex in Niteowls whip. I think one of the more erotic things was Silk Spectre II sucking on Manhattan’s thumb while they’re knockin’ boots; that’s very realistic but I had yet to see it in movies till then.

Moving off the sexual tip, the movie as a whole was fantastic; it dealt with great questions that were in the source from what I remember and even put some more in it. Of course it didn’t go in as deep as the graphic novel that takes close to a month to read and fully digest, anyone who would compare the two as equals are retarded purists. *looks at Dr. Cyborg*

If you haven’t read Watchmen, you will thoroughly enjoy this movie, though in some parts, particularly in the funeral flashbacks, I can see some new peeps getting confused.

If you don’t watch or like this movie because of how holy you take the source material, you need a life or a new religion. In other words go fuck yourself.

Mandroid: Well, Punk bands emerged out of the late seventies/ early eighties singing songs about death, destruction, and bad government. Alan Moore was a part of the birth of punk in the UK, he grew up in Northampton (where he still lives) with the likes of David J (of Bauhaus) and Collaborates with him on music/ spoken word projects. Is it any wonder Thatchers regime would end up resulting in works pitching that message? They’re from the same time, place, and society, that’s why they have mutual themes.

True, rarely an individual stands up not only for himself but for the well being of others as well, but often we pint at him with distrust and disdain for being different and having radical ideas. Most people keep their heads down and try to stay out of trouble, those that do not end up finding trouble and do not end up alive long enough to see their society changing ideals come to fruition.

I find irony in your comments (as do I in the general public), as I had mentioned in the What is Watchmen article (http://www.bigshinyrobot.com/reviews/archives/2799) I wrote on the site a while back. It seems that the book has become over-hyped and overblown to the masses as it trickled into the mainstream consciousness. Watchmen is touted as the greatest graphic novel ever (despite being a trade-paperback), but really can such a thing live up to the hype? Not only that is it really a book for everyone?

Watchmen is the best comic ever written because it was done in a time where it was perfect for creating a beast of this nature. innovations had happened for years moving towards the compilation of the efforts of Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons collaboration that is a magical homonuclious of all that came before it cast in a new light. Stemming from the modern age of comics ushered in by people like Denny O’Neil and Neil Adams (who in the 70’s revitalized DC with collaborations on Green Lantern/ Green Arrow and Batman) with socially conscious superheroes not only trying to punch out their respective arch-foes, also trying to better mankind through reaching out to the fellow man and trying to change society for the better. As stated before, Watchmen is more about comics than the surface story about a murder investigation involving a bunch of masked vigilantes. Also, it’s deconstruction of the medium and genre while putting it back together again, the latter a factor often missed by not only arm-chair readers but those creative types attempting to recreate through the filter of “grim and gritty”. Without Watchmen many modern comics would not in fact exist and the medium could still be languishing in the gutter like a used condom or cigarette butt.

Watchmen was the game changer for comics, true you can look at it’s simplistic story in a quaint fashion, but it’s so much more. Layer upon layer it’s not only a brilliant comic, it’s thee brilliant comic! It’s a delivery system for metaphor, morality, society, and humanity in it’s beauty and brilliance and ugly darkness as well. I personally think Dick Nixon broke America’s heart and made us all jaded, distrustful, grim bastards that sometimes can’t accept the beauty of things as we stare down the abyss of a toilet full of shit. We like to complain and judge before we even possess all factors involved, don’t let yourself be deprived of what could be possibly joyous or magical due to “hype”.

Back to the subject at hand, I’d say try and rid yourself of any pre-conceived notions or hype or general baggage and just take a day to sit down and read the book. Only then can you really judge the material on it’s own merits, hopefully. And even if you don’t enjoy it, at least it’s an adventure!

Dr. Cyborg: Well since this is already a twenty-two page post about a movie that wasn’t really that good I figure there is approximately 0 readers for my paragraph, which is okay by me. (I don’t fuckin care.) I wish I could have watched it and not compared it to the book, but I did, every time something happened I immediately filed it as A) Same as the book, or B) Not the same as the book. There were some really great moments, and it wasn’t boring to me. So in some regards it was a success, but I am also about to let loose a few things that bothered me about the film. First off I think this movie felt like sand slipping through your fingers. It tries to do a little bit of everything and give a thousand nods to the reader, but with out any sort of pay off or justification. The reason “it was in the book” is a poor excuse. This is poor cinema. For example when Rorschach was being interviewed by the psychiatrist, they gave the nod to the comic book by having Rorschach tell him lies about what he is seeing in the Rorschach test. In the comic book there was a reason he was lying to him, and he eventually after a while tells him about himself because he knows he isn’t going to give up. In the movie they use the same scene to give the nod, then have the doctor ask him another question and this changes his mind for the simple reason that he was asked. “Okay I’ll tell you about Rorschach” I think this describes the lack of heart in the depiction. They didn’t have a purpose other then to copy the comic. This is barbaric screen writing at best. The next thing I will complain about is from the following scene. Rorschach breaks into telling about Rorschach for no reason and he tells the story of what actually turned him into Rorschach instead of a man dressed as Rorschach. (Which was poorly explained because they were so focused on giving nods to the comic book.) A little girl is butchered and fed to the killers dogs. Rorschach shows up sees the evidence of this man’s brutal killing and waits for a confession to axe him in the head. In the comic he sees the evidence and gives him an ironic slaying where he would have to cut himself up like he must have done to the little girl or else burn to death. Rorschach does not wait for him to confess, Rorschach knows, and that’s good enough. Trading away a scene of sharp poetic justice for a few seconds of gore. This movie surgically removed the heart from Watchmen in it’s souless tracing.  Also the bite baby Rorschach gave to the other kid was almost sensual.

So I am not saying it was bad because it wasn’t as good as the book. On the other hand, there was a problem that it didn’t understand why and what it should take from the book and how to make it work. It was entertaining though, and it ranks above LXG.

Pencilbot: Go fuck yourself.

Citizen-Bot: Well, I think i said pretty much everything I wanted to say before: (http://www.bigshinyrobot.com/reviews/archives/4257) I liked the movie, and also, the two Watchmen virgins I went with also really enjoyed it. Let me put it this way: I went to see this with another Watchmen nerd who really loved the source material. We both loved the movie, warts and all, the way I love my wife and she loves me: we know each others faults but are willing to look past them because of how much good and right there is and we don’t want to pick at nits. The Watchmen virgins I went with loved it like you love a new girlfriend in that pure “I”ve Just Seen a Face” sort of way. Which is better? You decide.

It’s been more than a week since I saw Watchmen, and the more I think about it, the more I want to see it again. That’s a good sign, in my opinion. As I said in my review, my main criteria was “Did they tame the beast? Was this Watchmen?” On the whole, yes it was. I felt it was a faithful adaptation.

I think the comparisons to Sin City aren’t quite apt. I see this more like, well… 300, also from Snyder. The violence was more brutal, the sex was overstated, but the themes were left intact. Ditto with Snyder’s “Dawn of the Dead” remake. Ok, maybe I just really like Zach Snyder’s movies.

Now I’m going to be the first person to defend the sex in Watchmen (amazing for anyone who knows me). Was it pornographic? Well, I don’t know any porno whose soundtrack is Leonard Cohen, but, well…. as I said in my review, it probably was a bit much. However, the issue of Dreiberg’s impotency unless he’s in the suit was really never explicitly mentioned, although alluded to. The elongated sex scene where he is obviously anything but impotent and where Laurie is able to feel pleasure in a way that the most powerful man on earth could never give here was, well… nice. I think it worked to theme, and worked to character development. So, suck it, boobie haters! The porno has artistic merit!

Ultimately, I think you need to think about this movie for what it is, and not what it isn’t. No Watchmen adaptation could ever fully satisfy everyone in the same way a Star Wars prequel couldn’t. We need to appreciate this for how much right they got, not what they didn’t get right.

Nuf said. Hrmf…..

Kill-tacular-tron: Citizen-Bot, I think you make some strong arguments. I want everyone to know that I love titties and sex with women. You and I have read the book and see the ties to his suit giving him more of a sexual drive, I just worry to a Watchmen virgin that it might seem excessive. I just want to close with saying I like seeing naked boobs. Breasts are great, wonderful and awe-some.

Citizen-bot: Oops! Didn’t mean to cause a ruckus or question anyone’s sexuality/manhood/robothood! Let it be stated that Citizen-bot accepts robots of all kinds, be they homobots, heterobots, or chastitybots. (Prudebots or Buttars-bots accepted only with redeemable coupon)…

Clang! Boom! Steam!: Geeks are a hard lot to please no matter what. I’m a geek and a huge fan of Watchmen and I had a great time watching some of my favorite comic characters on the big screen and so did my date, who was a virgin to the material.

For those who lose sleep at night nitpicking and trying to take the joy of any movie going experience – fuck you – stay home. Sure this movie, like all movies, had flaws – so did the book if you really want to get down to it, I just hope I don’t have to listen to a bunch of ass-holes bitch about “how they should have done it.” I love how every geek in the world thinks they hold the magical cure to any ailing plot or character in their mushy video game addled brain just because they happened to read a comic book or two in their lives.

Bottom line, I was really impressed with the execution of something that was considered (and rightly so) unfilmable for so many years.

The opening credits sequence was down right breath-taking. The amount of information that is flying at you, the bizarre history lesson, the unapologetically ballsy use of Bob Dylan – it’s all such a beautiful and stylish introduction to a strange and exciting world of masked adventurers.

The music was particularly impressive – and since sound is the most notable difference between comics and movies, I’ll concentrate on that.

Again, opening with Dylan, ballsy, brash and perfect. Loved the sex scene in the for a number of reasons,(Citizen-Bot defended it perfectly) but Leonard Cohen was one of the major ones. Who can deny the impact of Doctor Manhattan’s origin – my single favorite issue of the comic which only got better with Billy Crudup’s perfectly understated performance and Philip Glass’ haunting organ music. Simon and Gafunkel at the funeral, Hendrix in Antarctica, all risky because of their iconic status in Rock n’ Roll history which brings it’s own baggage, but never did I feel the characters or story crumble under the weight of the epic soundtrack – A ballancing act that is often not given enough credit in my opinion since it is so rare that it is pulled off so well. The bigger the song, the more daunting the task in my estimation, but I think Snyder pulled it off brilliantly and right out of the gates – never overstating the 80’s vibe but also never neglecting it, or any other time period/mood associated with the far reaching origins of the masked adventurers.

I can’t end without asking what the Hell is up with Budget-trons “teen angst” comment? I’ve heard some dumb ass reviews and comment’s and I’m sure I’ll hear more, but that one takes the dumb ass cake.

Clang, Boom, Steam speaks – and it is so!

Budgetron: Clang, all I’m trying to say is that everyone puts the story of Watchmen on a pedestal when all it seems to say is the same thing we’ve been hearing for years from teenage punk bands, “The government sucks and is tearing the country apart, people who have the power to make change don’t do it, people will always find a way to destroy each other despite the few who just want peace, people always want to blame someone for their problems instead of taking a stand…etc, etc, etc.” Also, it’s just a movie.

Clang! Boom! Steam!:Whatever dumb ass. Minor threat can suck it!

Kill-tacular-tron: I’m going to have to agree with Clang, I think that the music was a nice touch. It set the tone and feel for a lot of the characters.

Swank-mo-tron: I think the music was the best choice Snyder made. Directing is about choices and that’s about the only thing (other than the change in the ending) that he actually made a choice about. Everything else was just filming what was in the book. And Budgetron, the book gets a lot deeper than the angsty “We Hate the Government!” thing… There’s a lot about the characters and their motivations and there’s Ozy’s plan that didn’t get explained very well in the film. The book did have a much wider scope to the overall story that I think the film missed.

You’d be well served to read the book.

And it’s not just nerds that revere this book, either. I mean, TIME Magazine put it on their list of 100 greatest NOVELS of all time along with real books. There’s a literary quality to it that moves beyond the angst and idiocy of comic nerds.

Citizen-bot: Budget-tron, I think the story is iconic NOT because of the teen angst and anti-authoritarianism. That’s the backdrop of the story– the chords of the song, not the story of the lyrics. You can read Watchmen that way, but, in my mind, that’s like watching The Simpsons to see Homer get hit on the head or in the groin, thus missing the underlying satire.

Watchmen is about morality. Ozymandius’s plan is one that asks the ultimate moral question: do the ends justify the means? We have Rorschach who chooses to not compromise because morality is black and white and willingly dies because he would rather die than compromise. We have Nite Owl and Silk Spectre, who are impotent to do anything and so accede because they are simply beaten, mere mortals in a world of supermen, and, to an extent, they accept the morality of the immorality. We have Manhattan, whose detachment from life makes it easy to make a “rational” decision (kill a million people to save a billion), and defend it, even by murder, to cover up the deeds.

Which one are we? Do we submit to authority, do we play the authority, can any of us be trusted with that authority? If I ask myself honestly, I am a Dan Dreiberg. I would do what he did, and then have major guilt the rest of my life.

And, finally, was Veidt RIGHT? Could you murder a baby if you knew that doing so would cure cancer? How about 100? Is mass genocide justifiable if it would keep the extinction of the species from occuring?

And what if you were wrong? (Cue the “Tales of the Black Freighter” side story) What if you actions unwittingly made the situation worse? So who do we trust to make these decisions?

Put all THAT in a minor threat song!!! (Although, I think I heard Henry Rollins talk about this one time…..)

That being said, I respect Budget-tron’s opinion. I just think he’s wrong.

Look for part three shortly…

Part one is presented below, part two will be available later.

Swank-mo-tron: Welcome, fellow robots, to the first roundtable we’ve had in a while (perhaps the first of 2009?) and to celebrate this occasion, we’re round-tabling the new film adaptation of The Watchmen, which comes to theatres on Friday. Let us begin by saying that we’d like to thank Zack at the Geekshow Podcast for the heads up about the screening.

Having said that, it’s still a few hours since I’ve seen the film and I’m still conflicted about how I feel about it. Honestly and truly. I’m trying so hard to not be the guy who’s like, “The book was better.” But that is obvious. There’s no way the movie could have been better than the book. And there were moments in the movie that were utterly brilliant. The opening with The Comedian, the business on Mars, the prison sequences, the death of Rorschach, etc… But other times I was thinking to myself, “I’d rather be reading the book.” I mean, there were a couple of times were shivers registered on the tingle-o-meter on my back unit, and other times when my optics teared up, I have to admit that right now.

I enjoyed this film. But it felt like it lacked the poignance and greatness of the graphic novel. Again, I’m trying to separate the book from the movie, but it was baggage that I brought with me from the book that helped propped the film up for me. I think the use of music was fantastic, the production and art design was great, the attention to detail was astounding. But there were weak links. Malin Akerman (Laurie) was stunning to look at but was a terrible actress (and trying to give her Dr. Manhattans best lines about endings in the end was perhaps the biggest misstep in the adaptation), Nixon wasn’t the best (seriously, we all just got done watching Frank Langella and this guy was all make-up), and they tried a little too hard to wink at me for having read the book.

So, what did everyone else think?

Kill-tacular-tron: I really really enjoyed the movie. It definitely drifted away from the source material towards the end of the movie. I felt that Zack did a good job of cutting out the extra scenes that weren’t necessary, but still nodding at the geeks that were looking for the scene.

For instance, I really like in the book when the fire breaks out and they use Archie to save the tenants. And while they’re being transported to a safer area they are given some coffee. In the movie there isn’t time for coffee, but as Silk Spectre is cleaning up after everyone gets off the ship she puts some coffee cups away in the dash. A polite nod while not taking up too much of our time.

I agree with Swank, we shouldn’t compare the movie and the book because they are different animals. But the movie certainly didn’t pack the same punch the book did. I feel like I might have enjoyed it so much because I was filling in the gaps with previous knowledge I had gained from the book. The general public may not have such a good time with this movie. It may just turn into another Sin City. For some reason I highily doubt hearing a lot of people not famiar with the source material enjoying this movie.

Proletaria-Tron: Well I waited until the morning after to really think about the movie, last night I just wanted to take it in. But so far I’m going to have to agree with Swank and Kill. Good movie, but if you haven’t read the book you really might not like it.

It was a brutal and violent and sexy movie, and it might be a little over the top for the movie going public. There were a lot of little nods to the book and I enjoyed that just because I could fill in the blanks and finish the story for myself. I think the new ending works well especially considering how much extra time would have been needed for books ending. Most of the acting was good, I think Dr. Manhattan (Billy Crudup) was done perfectly. He had a sadness and kind of boredom to him the entire time. The Comedian (Jeffrey Dean Morgan) was awesome, he was a brutal asshole and it was perfect. However, Silk Spectre (Malin Akerman) as sexy as she was just paled in comparison to the people she shared the screen with. I’m waiting to see if everyone bitches about Rorschach’s voice as much as they did Christian Bale’s Batman because to me they sounded exactly the same.

Kill-tacular-tron: On the subject of Rorschach… best character in the movie. Hands down.

Proletaria-Tron:Rorschach was awesome, especially in prison. But I dug the Comedian. Hard to choose the best.

Swank-mo-tron: I guess I could agree to that, too.

Budgetron: For years I avoided reading this comic; when I was very young it was because it was the early Image days and the art sucked, and then as I got older, it was because I’d been told so many times how brilliant and earth shattering the story and the message was and I just didn’t care. Well, now that I’ve seen the movie, I can say I wasn’t blown away like many of you out there. Now, let me start out by saying that I love comics. I really do, I love all of them, not just super heroes and not just mange, but all comics. I guess thats why the story of Watchmen didn’t blow my robot ass off its hinges.

We as a comics community have a tendency to rant and rave about a comic when an author or artist goes out of their way to say anything smart in them. Why? Well, it’s because I think we are, as a comics community (primarily the superhero reading community perhaps?), embarassed of our little four color worlds we hide within every Wednesday. So when a “smart comic” comes around, everyone gets excited and proud of the “little medium that could”. But in my opinion, Watchmen is nothing more than teenage angst wrapped in metaphor. I mean, there were no new ideas explored or dissected, and no weighty themes that haven’t been shouted through the mic at a Minor Threat show 29 years ago…so what’s the big deal?

The world sucks and is full of power hungry assholes that can’t be stopped even by the few who have the power (or will) to do so? The American dream is to rip America apart from the inside out, sparing the few at the expense of the whole? Humankind is most likely NOT worth saving because we don’t care to save ourselves? Are these the weighty concepts everyone is so in awe of? I think this shit everyday.

But I digress, I’m here to tell you what I thought of the film, and I enjoyed it. I felt our heroes spent a little too much time wondering aloud, “What’s going on?” when we could have been learning who they were (esp the old Night Owl, Rorschach, and The Comedian), but I did feel it was a very well made film, and although not exactly the kind of movie an average super hero flick attending audience migh twant or expect, it was an overall good time.

I felt the first half of the film was breathtaking, the structure of story and characters were great (although I didn’t feel the “mystery” was really all that intriguing) and I very much enjoyed the most effed up character (Rorschach) in the film, being the biggest seeker of justice. Very interesting. The acting was bad in part, but overall great. The production design was impeccable, and although at times the music was a bit jarring, I felt that overall, the choices for music in the film were very good.

I liked it. I wasn’t blown away by the story, or the movie, but I liked it. This is a very hastily written, yet long, review, so I will not go back and rethink things. Screw you guys if you think I’m blabbering on too much.

Kill-tacular-tron:I feel like you make an interesting point. While I don’t agree that the story is over hyped (because I thought the same thing before I read it), I feel like the movie might be over hyped. The whole point of the story as I saw it (in the book) was the characters. And their relationships and the way they saw and interacted with the world. A lot of that had to be cut for the movie. Rorschach’s “origin story” in prison was neutered.

Also, a lot of the character development was beefed up for the Hollywood movie. The scene with the fire (which I had discussed with Dr. Cyborg) was a big exciting event climaxing with an explosion chasing Silk Specter out of the building. The sex scene that followed was just short of pornographic, while in the book it was much more subtle and romantic. I would be interested to see what you would think of the story after reading the book and comparing the two…

Budgetron: On the subject of Rorschach, I could have watched him all day, and I understand there’s more psychiatry scenes in the book? That makes me happy, it was one of my favorite bits in the movie, also, his martyrdom was pretty awesome. But really, the best character was Dr. Manhattan. Like Nick said, the boredom and separation from reality that Billy Crudup (or the effects team that completely CG’d his performance) was able to convey was pretty brilliant. When I first heard his voice I knew, even without having read the book, “Ok, this guy doesn’t give a crap about anything, he’s detached as hell”. I mean, shit, what says, “I don’t care” more than being naked all the time?

You see, it wasn’t the sex scene that bothered me so much as the fact that they spent 3 minutes on something like that when they could have better utilized it elsewhere, because obviously there was a lot to say that wasn’t said at all.

So check back in a little while for part two, where we hear from Citizen-bot, Clang! Boom! Steam!, Pencil-bot, Mandroid and others!

(UPDATE: Part Two!)

Swank-mo-tron: Hello everyone, Swank-mo-tron here.  I just wanted to kick off our first roundtable in a while, this time for the new 007 picture, Quantum of Solace.

Let me be the first to say that this movie was pretty good despite obvious mistakes and missteps.  The action sequences, though too choppy, were pretty engaging and cool and Daniel Craig is a certifiable bad-ass.  Having said that, this isn’t my favorite Bond film and there are a few reasons for that.  First, the fact that Forster decided to NOT open with the gun barrel sequence that every other James Bond picture opens with started off this outing with a bit of annoyance for me.  (I was already pissed because there wasn’t a Watchmen trailer on my print but two (count ‘em two!) fucking Seven Pounds trailers).  The lack of the gun barrel combined with the utterly patronizing and pointless title screens every time the locale changes served to grate on me through what should have been an otherwise perfect film.  I mean, how many Bond movies have we as a collective audience sat through and didn’t need updates about where the action was heading and all of a sudden we’re too fucking stupid?  I mean honestly, when Bond says, “They’re going to Bolivia,” and they get on a plane and the next shot is him getting off, can’t we just assume that we’re in Bolivia instead of taking me for a moron?  My other big problem was the lack of 007’s theme song in the body of the film.  In Casino Royale, I understood the reason they held off, but for this outing there was no excuse.

Also, where the fuck are Q and Moneypenny?  There is a reason that for 20 straight Bond films there was a Q department and a great scene with Bond and his relationship with Moneypenny.  Why are we not capable of handling that awesomeness anymore?  The next film might as well be Moonraker bad if it can’t include Moneypenny, Q, the James Bond theme and the gun barrel sequence at the fucking beginning.  Otherwise this is just another Bourne movie, and I’ve had enough of those….

Any thoughts?

Humanjunk: The movie was good though. I won’t say it’s as good as Casino Royale, as I seemed to miss the character arc if there was any for Bond. He spent the whole of the movie scowling and being emotionally constipated, don’t get me wrong, Daniel Craig is a fine Bond, by far my favorite, but it seemed to me that he spent the entire time pissed over Vesper. This movie and the last one are more human and real than any of the other ones in the franchise, and Craig, though brooding, brings an element of melancholy to the film; a man who fights against his emotions, fearing that they’ll make him seem weak. He’s well aware that everything he touches turns to shit.

Humanjunk: I’m very happy to see the show return with such a bang. Between Hiro being his awesomely naive self and opening up a pandoras box, Sylar giving Clair a lobotomy, Future Peter fucking up everything up, Suresh pulling a Brundlefly and Nikki becoming Mrs. Freeze, it was a fanboy’s wet dream. A much better start than the last lackluster season. I can’t help but think that this is what the X-Men movies should have been. And what a way to kick off with the introduction of what we really needed: villains. Can’t wait for the rest of the season.

Arse-Bot: I too thought this was a GREAT start to the new season with a nearly flawless 2 hour season premier. It’s dark and brooding, exciting, smart, and just everything us superhero fanboys were looking for in a series about people with special abilities! I really enjoy how this season they are mixing science with faith and asking the question are these God-given abilities, or is there scientific basis around it? And of course it’s heavy on the time travel and Butterfly effect that has always seemed to be at the forefront of Heroes (Ando and Hiro?! WTF?!). Glad the new season has started up, can’t wait for next Monday!

Swank-Mo-Tron: You lousy bastards!  I just started Heroes about a week ago and am 14 episodes in…  So, I’m not participating, but hopefully by the next roundtable or two, I’ll be caught up…. 

Humanjunk: Well, my programing doesn’t include belief in God, so I’ll have to say that Nathan’s newfound faith is due to severe blood loss. I’m rather skeptical about the injection of powers and Ando seeming to have some in the future, as the human element in the show added a sense of reality. Once everyone has powers, what’s the point. I mean, isn’t that why Bendis did House of M? To make mutants a minority again?

Swank, we’re both glad you’re not participating. No one likes you.

Arse-Bot: Agreed with wanting to keep the human factor involved with Ando. I thought that the injection of powers was COMPLETELY out of character for Dr. Suresh), so if I had to point out one negative about the Heroes premiere, that would be it. He’s always been the intelligent, collected, sometimes naive Dr. and now he’s injecting himself with super powers. Maybe I missed that characer progression in season two somewhere…

Humanjunk: I totally agree with the vein spiking of Suresh. Two seasons of him being the pragmatic and rational character of the show and all of a sudden he’s a power hungry mad scientist? Seems rather inconsistent to me. It is a con to this new season, but, if it turns him inside out and he starts to vomit acid on to his food and prey then I’m cool with it. Sureshfly 4 life!

Marvel Comics was brave enough to do what even the biggest movie studios won’t.  And that is give reviewers a chance to check out a stinker in advance of its release. Bravo!

Swank-mo-tron: So, it seems as though there really isn’t much to say about Marvel Apes.  The premise is identical to Marvel Zombies (alternate universe) and it’s pretty much not anywhere near as cool.  I’m not sure why I read this, this is a novelty act that I have no idea how they’re going to sell a bunch of copies of this.  It’s a one-trick-pony and it’s 4 issues long?  It’s like Planet of the Apes with none of the cool sci-fi elements…  It’s just…  God…

.

(Here’s another shot of “My Little Tony” and here’s one of Spider-Pony. There’s even a Super-Pony and a Bat-Pony.)

.
Humanjunk: Fuck Marvel Ponies. I want to see Marvel Care Bears.

Real Annika MK3-47: I’m a vegan tree-hugger. I love apes, gorillas, and primates of all kinds. Too bad I don’t like crappy comics, or this would be a match made in heaven. Seriously, you would have to pay me to get past the halfway mark.

Mookatron – Wow. “Marvel Apes” felt like a super-crappy mid-season replacement show with a big name star star attached, so the network has to put it out there to justify their investment. I started reading with no expectations whatsoever, and was quickly proven right. They pulled out every bad pun you remember from elementary school and even added a few more. The deal was sealed when Monkey Speedball asks the villainous Dr. Ooktapus (sigh) “Is that a banana or are you just happy to see me?” Really? A dick joke? That’s quality right there. I should have stopped reading there, but I guess I felt like I needed the punishment. Pick up “Apes” if you feel the need to hurt yourself, too.

Bambot: This book could have been fun, but the story was convoluted and way too wordy. At one point one of Gibbon’s rambling captions even gets bored of itself and ends with “blah blah blah.” If the writer is sick of the narration how are we not supposed to be?  Oh and so all you gotta do to impress the simians enough to earn an invite to Ape-vengers HQ is whip Speedball out of a hoodie in time to block a tentacle? Seriously? Did I miss something there? A little weak for a supposed pivotal moment in Gibbon’s life. The character redesigns are also boorish. The ape Reed Richards was cool, though. And Barry Kitson’s art in the back “History of the Marvel Apes Universe” section was nice to look at. Mookatron is dead right about the puns. Monkhattan? Ape-vengers? And way too many proverbs, too. “As the saying goes…” this book sucks.

Say a prayer for the trees that gave their lives for this rubbish.

Kill-tacular-tron: There is nothing about this book that sounds appealing. I refuse to waste the 15 minutes of my life to read it. Instead I’m going to go turn on the microwave and steady my face dangerously close to it for 15 minutes.

Clang! Boom! Steam: I don’t feel like I can criticize it since by sheer virtue of the fact that I read it means that Marvel has the last laugh.

But when you bait me with monkeys, there better be feces-slinging and uninhibited monkey sex, and NO FUCKING TALKING, with the story preferrably being told entirely in crazy-ass monkey noises (in the proven-to-be-successful fashion of that one issue of Powers), or else I’m spending that money on drugs instead. Sorry, Marvel, it’s not that I don’t care – I just don’t get it.

Neotron: I loved it! Actually, I’m just trying to fit in. Everyone liked it, right?

Doctor Cyborg, Robot M.D.: I guess I just don’t see the target audience here. This book suffers from what I like to call “Beverly Hills Chihuahua syndrome” (BHCS) In which something panders so greatly to a child, that it annoys the adults to the point they refuse to buy the product in question, and in the case of Marvel Apes if ever a child breaks the BHCS barrier, he would have a comic book that is far to wordy to read. In fact I can personally guarantee that no one in history, has ever or will ever read Marvel Apes in its entirety. Which is one reason that it took Marvel so long to put the book out. True Story : Marvel had to hire two new editors for every page of Marvel Apes, because the book is simply that boring.

Swank-mo-tron: None of us saw this pile of radioactive dookie.  The trailer was enough to make me want to gouge out my eyes.

Humanjunk: Speak for yourself. I saw it and it was by far the greatest thing I’ve ever seen. It was like a dilapidating orgasm that rendered me to a puddle of goo in the theaters chair.

Swank-mo-tron: I don’t believe you.